Curse

Reverend Dr · Oct 22, 2010, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Has there been any movement towards an IRC channel or something else that would work as a meeting place? I know that myself and others don't even log onto GW unless something is being put together.

Also that recent IRC channel set up is getting kind of lonely now.

Ariena Najea · Oct 23, 2010, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

The thread I posted contains nice examples showcasing the exact kind of behaviour that is making me not want to PvP.
So the question is - would you prefer to know why people don't want to PvP so that one can work on that and potentially convince players to actually try it or would you prefer that people just shut up and don't play?

The PvP community is NO position to come here and just asks to be trusted! You have screwed up too royally for that!

This is the most difficult obstacle after breaking in that we need to address. Most of the players who have posted with stories of disrespect have not actually played with the community, but rather just a bunch of jerks who are bored and happen to be PvPing. Think of RA as your everyday pug in PvE... not everyone is friendly and respectful, and there are certainly jerks and trolls. Fortunately these players are the minority, but are merely more vocal than your average PvPer.

Try playing with some of the "coordinated" members of the GvG community upier, and then formulate your opinion on the community.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Has there been any movement towards an IRC channel or something else that would work as a meeting place? I know that myself and others don't even log onto GW unless something is being put together.

Also that recent IRC channel set up is getting kind of lonely now.

The new Embark Beach promises to help somewhat with finding people in-game, but I do agree that a new system should be put into place for people who don't like waiting around. I recall an irc channel being set up, but did not see any advertising for it, which is likely why it is no longer active. I think an in-game and forum marketing campaign is required to give the channel the attention it needs to stay functional. I can talk to the Curse staff to see it they wouldn't mind getting us another irc channel.

Gabriel of Ravn · Oct 23, 2010, 03:39 AM // 03:39

I actually went against my normal and played costume brawl lost some won some but I had fun overall not the same as GvG but definitely makes me want to pvp more.

The PvP Community · Oct 23, 2010, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabriel of Ravn

I actually went against my normal and played costume brawl lost some won some but I had fun overall not the same as GvG but definitely makes me want to pvp more.

Hopefully other people share similiar feelings.

Reverend Dr · Oct 23, 2010, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariena Najea

The new Embark Beach promises to help somewhat with finding people in-game, but I do agree that a new system should be put into place for people who don't like waiting around. I recall an irc channel being set up, but did not see any advertising for it, which is likely why it is no longer active. I think an in-game and forum marketing campaign is required to give the channel the attention it needs to stay functional. I can talk to the Curse staff to see it they wouldn't mind getting us another irc channel.

There was one set up by QQ several months back. At first it was highly populated and easy to get GvG together, but right now it is completely dead. I just know that myself and at least some degree of others are more than willing to pvp, but aren't going to log in to GW to idle in hopes that it comes to us, so something outside of the GW client would be beneficial. I only bring up IRC because that was the last effort that saw any results. A Steam community with announcements could work just as well and I'm sure there are other options. I just feel that something like this is necessary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

The PvP community is NO position to come here and just asks to be trusted! You have screwed up too royally for that!

For that matter if the roles were reversed the PvE community would be in no position to ask to be trusted. I'm sure there are PvE players that are nice, work with others, and aren't demanding; but damn if I've met a single one in game.

You know that "R9+++++++ URSAN NO NUB NEED APPLY" pugs (or whatever criteria they have these days)? If I were to judge all PvE players by that interaction I would easily dismiss the whole community and also be completely wrong with that stereotype. This is exactly what has been happening; a few PvE players that insist on talking and talking got offended by the lowest denominator of players that PvP. I am not judging PvE based on those pugs, please don't judge PvP based upon the "R9+" pugs in HA (which are the worst of the terrible players).

Artisan Archer · Oct 23, 2010, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

You know that "R9+++++++ URSAN NO NUB NEED APPLY" pugs (or whatever criteria they have these days)? If I were to judge all PvE players by that interaction I would easily dismiss the whole community and also be completely wrong with that stereotype. This is exactly what has been happening; a few PvE players that insist on talking and talking got offended by the lowest denominator of players that PvP. I am not judging PvE based on those pugs, please don't judge PvP based upon the "R9+" pugs in HA (which are the worst of the terrible players).

Quoting for emphasis.

Calista Blackblood · Oct 23, 2010, 09:58 AM // 09:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

You know that "R9+++++++ URSAN NO NUB NEED APPLY" pugs (or whatever criteria they have these days)? If I were to judge all PvE players by that interaction I would easily dismiss the whole community and also be completely wrong with that stereotype. This is exactly what has been happening; a few PvE players that insist on talking and talking got offended by the lowest denominator of players that PvP. I am not judging PvE based on those pugs, please don't judge PvP based upon the "R9+" pugs in HA (which are the worst of the terrible players).

Maybe mildly off topic but this is something that really bugs me about pve. 99% of the time,I take a low ranked pug over the max rank (particularly in DoA as of late) Player attitude in local chat and party window usually gives a good indication of at least if you'll be able to put up with them. PvPers have the brilliant ability to kick once they lose,DoA full runs don't /sadface. With this I am of course not implying that all max pve rank players are knobs,but like PvP there are some undesireables.

Ending the separation in both game formats is in the hands of the players and personally,If I can help one very appreciative low rank player make a run or gain more title ranks,then anyone can and most probably should.

These players are your future friends list...

RotteN · Oct 23, 2010, 10:33 AM // 10:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

The PvP community is NO position to come here and just asks to be trusted! You have screwed up too royally for that!

I'm pretty sure the OP didn't just "come in and asked to be trusted". He simply invited the people that have so far ignored the PvP part of the game to give it a try, who knows, they might just enjoy it.

Besides, as Reverend already pointed out, every community has rotten apples. You don't chop down an entire orchard because some of the fruit's rotten, right? There are more than enough laid back PvPers, but chances are you'll have to look a bit further than your average HA pug (I haven't pugged HA for years now, it's a serious and unnecessary pain in the ass).

daba · Oct 23, 2010, 04:18 PM // 16:18

I hate to be negative but gvg died for a reason:
1) it needs a large organized group
2) it is not casual friendly at all:
- complicated rules,
- large number of complex maps,
- long set up,
- can not be self-learned
3) rewards targeted the top of the food chain, neglecting the vast majority of the players
4) 5 years is a long time in the world of computer games

Gl for you though.

Perkunas · Oct 23, 2010, 05:37 PM // 17:37

GvG requires organization, which in turn requires a schedule. PvE does not require a schedule. There was a time when I could make and keep a schedule for GW. Now, I logon and play when i have time, may be early morning, mid afternoon, or late at night. I can no longer count on even playing any given day of the week or even a certain hour of the day. This is what has kept me away from organized PvP, for the past couple of years. Should things change that would allow me to schedule online time, then I will once again look into organized PvP.

Lanier · Oct 23, 2010, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

You know that "R9+++++++ URSAN NO NUB NEED APPLY" pugs (or whatever criteria they have these days)? If I were to judge all PvE players by that interaction I would easily dismiss the whole community and also be completely wrong with that stereotype. This is exactly what has been happening; a few PvE players that insist on talking and talking got offended by the lowest denominator of players that PvP. I am not judging PvE based on those pugs, please don't judge PvP based upon the "R9+" pugs in HA (which are the worst of the terrible players).

PvE elitists can't really be compared to PvP elitists because in pve, you don't have to interact with them. You can safely ignore them and accomplish everything you want to in PvE. The same is not true for PvP. While there arn't any more elitists in PvP than there are in PvE, you do have to interact with them in PvP.

Reverend Dr · Oct 23, 2010, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

You can safely ignore them and accomplish everything you want to in PvE. The same is not true for PvP.

That is completely wrong. You can easily ignore all of those PvP [wanna be] "elitists" and accomplish what you want in PvP. In fact its much easier to get anything in PvP accomplished if you start by ignoring those people.

Lanier · Oct 23, 2010, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

That is completely wrong. You can easily ignore all of those PvP [wanna be] "elitists" and accomplish what you want in PvP. In fact its much easier to get anything in PvP accomplished if you start by ignoring those people.

but you still have to play against them, and in the case of RA, play with them.

RotteN · Oct 23, 2010, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

but you still have to play against them, and in the case of RA, play with them.

Turn off all-chat and put yourself on dnd. Problem solved, you can now safely ignore them.

in RA, it might be a bit more difficult to ignore them, but in all honesty, RA is far from the most enjoyable PvP format. Just play something else

ilr · Oct 23, 2010, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by RotteN

You're seriously misinterpreting the actual reason for making smurf guilds. "Dominating the fresh meat" was never really part of the equation. The main concern was that, once you're high up on the ladder, it can take ages to simply find an opponent. And since most GvGers play/played GW to actually play GvGs, and not wait around and chitchat on ventrilo, they created new guilds to find games faster. Usually, those smurf raced past the lower end of the ladder with very few losses, so there wasn't even that much "fresh meat owning" involved.

K, so you're actually proving my biggest worry about this format.... one which I merely assumed from other games with similar formats & ladders. ....Not exactly what I was hoping to hear. Why should PvE'ers bother then??

TO REITERATE: The Crux of my questioning that STILL has yet to get an answer: What are Veterans actually sacrificing here to make the format more inviting? And don't say RTFM... Anyone can point n00bs to some out of date guides and say "knock yourself out kiddo". I asked for evidence that Vets would actually put aside the need to play at their highest potential for a while and what I got instead were excuses for why this format also apparently has rabid Smurfing which was the last thing I honestly expected. If you don't understand why it's important to go easy on newer players and play more casually, then I dunno what to tell ya. ...So you tell me instead how exactly your solutions are more inviting and better at growing the format?

You must make that case that this invitation, this entire thread, is more than just a casting call for redshirts (for you Vets to Pwn Hard) or atleast prove ya got a sense of humor. While reporting a post b/c it jokingly included the "Candy Van" demonstrates the opposite of that capacity. IE: Instead of making me RAEG, make an effort get me on your side.

niek2004 · Oct 23, 2010, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Good post. The community isn't closed at all because I don't even know 3/4 of the top20 teams. While a year ago I knew every team.

ilr · Oct 23, 2010, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

For that matter if the roles were reversed the PvE community would be in no position to ask to be trusted. I'm sure there are PvE players that are nice, work with others, and aren't demanding; but damn if I've met a single one in game.

You know that "R9+++++++ URSAN NO NUB NEED APPLY" pugs (or whatever criteria they have these days)? If I were to judge all PvE players by that interaction I would easily dismiss the whole community and also be completely wrong with that stereotype. This is exactly what has been happening; a few PvE players that insist on talking and talking got offended by the lowest denominator of players that PvP. I am not judging PvE based on those pugs, please don't judge PvP based upon the "R9+" pugs in HA (which are the worst of the terrible players).

I'd actually be your advocate here that you can indeed judge a large swath of PvE'ers by that sort of behavior. Well maybe not myself.... but maybe the people who've asked me back to run some of these Elite areas with them. They can be real dicks at first b/c they assume every new inclusion into the grouping is a nub who lacks any skill index at all. More than half the time, they're right too. That's the problem with a game where 100% of the combat is instanced. You can't just spec someone out in a persistent area to see what their skill index is like we'll fortunately be able to in Gw2.

But some of those same people will trust you to run whatever ya damn well please once you prove your capabilities. Last night for example I came off a HM DOA run where we had 3 mesmers, 1 emo, and 1 Sin. I can't even remember the rest of the team b/c it was so inconsequential outside of the Permaseed gimmick (which I'm NOT in favor of BTW... I wish Seed was overhauled into something more mediocre but cross-profession'able). Long story short, we beat it easy despite multiple wipes proving there's way too much profession & build discrimination in PvE. (and poorly designed content like DOA)

Is PvP that forgiving? ...Don't understimate me either on this, I used to read every single "State of the Game" Article about it back when the main site originally had those b/c it affected us PvE'ers too up until skill splits finally came to pass. I also know the various metas from witnessing all the whining about it elsewhere (lol, Distortion). You can't tell me cookie cutting didn't persist. ...But my question is, could you avoid that cookie cutting without screwing the rest of your teammates over in this format, and would they trust you to do so?

Master Fuhon · Oct 23, 2010, 09:25 PM // 21:25

When I was younger, I would go to the basketball court to play basketball, and we would shoot free throws to pick two captains, and then fill out teams with what was there. I had to play with randoms and against my friends all the time, but it was a sacrifice worth making just to be able to play a game. Sure, we also hustled people a few times who didn't realize we played with each other often (I hate that kid, he sucks, don't put him on my team; then making behind the back passes because we knew where to go; coordinated a trap since he was left handed and I was right, and I would go high while he went low because of our heights).

But imagine some retard at the outdoor basketball courts waiting hours until it turned dark because he only plays with legit players, like someone who would be on a basketball team (Looking for center 6'3"+, looking for point guard must demonstrate dribbling and passing ability, must have winning records in pick up games). I had to play all the time against one of my friends who started on the high school basketball team (6'5 to my 5'9), and literally we could only win against his team by beating him mentally with trapping and double-teaming and then he would be pissed off about it until the next day. If it was a Hustle (name for a free-for-all basketball game), he always won against anybody who ever showed up.

I don't know if video games can design captains and team picking into them (or would need to, basically it's a form of "player draft" like you would do in a competitive league), or if the majority of the community would actually want it. But as long as you realize the seriousness of the situation to try stuff: Devs have split priorities, hard-core PvErs avidly want PvP in all forms to die, and hard-core PvPers are actively seeking out other games.

RotteN · Oct 23, 2010, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilr

I asked for evidence that Vets would actually put aside the need to play at their highest potential for a while and what I got instead were excuses for why this format also apparently has rabid Smurfing which was the last thing I honestly expected. If you don't understand why it's important to go easy on newer players and play more casually, then I dunno what to tell ya.

What evidence do you need? The only evidence you'll ever get is when you actually try to GvG ... I've guested for a lot of low ranked guilds because they needed a player, I never really cared. There are a lot of experienced PvPers just like me. We just enjoy playing GvG, at any level.

As for "excuses for rabid smurfing", I never said it was a large scale occurrence. I simply pointed out that some guilds used to evade the 30+ minutes waiting time by simply doing their everyday ladder play on another guild. It was never ment to "keep the newbies down". Next time you want to access a PvE area, take a stopwatch and wait 30 minutes first. And keep doing that every time you're about to zone. I'm rather curious to hear from you how enjoyable that type of playing experience is for you.

The PvP Community · Oct 23, 2010, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilr

K, so you're actually proving my biggest worry about this format.... one which I merely assumed from other games with similar formats & ladders. ....Not exactly what I was hoping to hear. Why should PvE'ers bother then??

TO REITERATE: The Crux of my questioning that STILL has yet to get an answer: What are Veterans actually sacrificing here to make the format more inviting? And don't say RTFM... Anyone can point n00bs to some out of date guides and say "knock yourself out kiddo". I asked for evidence that Vets would actually put aside the need to play at their highest potential for a while and what I got instead were excuses for why this format also apparently has rabid Smurfing which was the last thing I honestly expected. If you don't understand why it's important to go easy on newer players and play more casually, then I dunno what to tell ya. ...So you tell me instead how exactly your solutions are more inviting and better at growing the format?

You must make that case that this invitation, this entire thread, is more than just a casting call for redshirts (for you Vets to Pwn Hard) or atleast prove ya got a sense of humor. While reporting a post b/c it jokingly included the "Candy Van" demonstrates the opposite of that capacity. IE: Instead of making me RAEG, make an effort get me on your side.

I don't know a single player who, if not currently in a GvG, would decline a guest invite from a guild who wanted to play and improve.